Wednesday, July 21, 2010

Update!

Well, I forgot to add olive oil to the chicken the other night, but Emmett's still doing great. He didn't eat all of the chicken--I think he just doesn't like poultry, but variety is supposed to be important in this type of diet. Here's what I find is interesting though--Danni is quite happy to go ahead and eat chicken and turkey whenever I give it to her, but Emmett hates it and loves pork. Golden Retrievers are field dogs and Great Danes were actually originally bred to hunt wild boar. Maybe it's just coincidence though.

I fed Emmett pork yesterday morning and he ate it right up! I still have to cut it into chunks because he's not comfortable taking bites off of a chunk of meat. I also got more shoulder/butt meat and pork ribs from Costco yesterday and separated it into 1.5-2 lb bags. Each bag has approximately one rib and the rest is meat. One of those bags is one meal for Emmett or one day's food for Danni.

I started Danni on turkey this morning-- I fed her the turkey neck and organs. Later today I'll cut a piece off of a quarter of the turkey and give it to her.

Monday, July 19, 2010

Pork...it's what's for lunch

Wooo! Fantastic news: Emmett ate the pork shoulder! First I offered it to him for breakfast, with tripe on top and on bottom; he picked it up and chewed it quite a bit. He didn't get any meat off of it...he was just chewing on it. So after a while I had to leave and Emmett looked like he was done messing with it, so I picked it up and put it away.

Later at lunch time I had been doing some research and got the idea to cut it up for him. I cut it up with scissors, left the meat in his bowl with the bone, and mixed in some tripe. I left him to it and went inside for like a minute or so, and when I came back out everything was gone from his bowl. It kind of alarmed me because the bone wasn't that small and I'm afraid that he swallowed it whole. I'm keeping my eye on him, but after a little more research, I think he'll be fine.

I got some more pork meat (shoulder/butt) from TaLin Market today just for tomorrow morning because now I know that Emmett'll eat it and I have to leave early tomorrow. I'm going to try to give him cut-up chicken with tripe & olive oil (to help the bone pass) for dinner tonight. Wish us luck!
:]

Sunday, July 18, 2010

Out of patties...now to the tripe.

So Danni 'stole' Emmett's turkey leg that I was planning on offering him until he ate it...he dropped it on the ground and went inside, so I guess Danni thought it was up for grabs. She also ate quite a bit of chicken, so she may only get one meal tomorrow.

Then at Emmett's dinner I was somewhat at a standstill...I took a couple chicken quarters out of the freezer and put them in the fridge to thaw, but that was a bad idea because by the time Emmett needed to eat, they were still frozen.

So, I went to the freezer to check out my options. At first I was just going to use the microwave to defrost the chicken, but I really didn't want to take the chance of cooking the bone (cooked bones splinter and are NOT good for dogs).

Fortunately, I remembered that I had the boneless stew pork that I bought at Smith's for cheap. So I took that out and defrosted it in the microwave. Unfortunately I cooked it a little too much to the point where some of it was no longer raw, but once I dropped it in his bowl, Emmett started eating it without any enticement. He was kind of just picking it up, chewing a little, then spitting it out, but he was eating! So I got the tripe and mixed a little around with the pork, and it was gone in no time at all!

It made me wonder what tripe is, and I found this website:

And this explanation from that website:
Tripe is the stomach of ruminating animals. These animals (i.e. cattle, buffalo,
sheep, deer, goats, antelope, etc.) are classified as being four-footed, hooved,
cud chewing mamals with a stomach that consists of four chambers. The four
chambers of such a stomach are known as the rumen, reticulum, omasum and the
abomasum. The food the animal eats (i.e. grass, hay) is swallowed unchewed and
passes into the rumen and reticulum where it is then regurgitated, chewed and
mixed with saliva. It is again swallowed and then passed through the reticulum
and omasum into the abomasum, where it is then further broken down by the
gastric juices, amino acids and other digestive enzymes. Yummy!

So how can something so disgusting, be so good? These same gastric juices and
enzymes not only aid the animal in digestion, but also aid the dog in digesting
and efficiently utilizing his food. The amino acids are necessary for muscular
development and, the other gastric juices, I believe, are the best cleaner for
their teeth!

I took the pork shoulder out of the freezer to thaw it for tomorrow morning...we'll see if he'll eat that. :)

Saturday, July 17, 2010

Pleasant sounds.

I cut the turkey into pieces last night....that was not easy at all! Took quite a bit of muscle.

I tried to give the turkey leg to Emmett last night, but no go. So this morning I tried putting it in his bowl with the lamb patties and I stuffed some of the patties into the meat of the turkey leg (sorry if this is getting gross). At least at that point he'll put raw turkey into his mouth.

Then this evening, I tried again with the turkey leg because I only had one more lamb patty left and I smushed lamb all over it and left it in Em's bowl to go watch Danni eat. Danni's got this down! She finishes really quick.

So I continued to sit there under the pretense of paying attention to Danni, but I was really waiting to put the turkey leg away when Emmett almost invariably didn't eat it....so while I was sitting there, I heard a CRUNCH!

Emmett was chewing on the TURKEY!!!! That is a really good sign for me. :) He only crunched it a couple times, but that is progress.

I gave Danni quite a bit less today because I think I've been feeding her a little too much. I also groomed her and her fur is SO shiney. It's awesome...I should take picture.

Friday, July 16, 2010

Bought more meaty meat.

hellooo. ok, so this morning i woke up at 6:00 and decided to go to Smith's to see if they had any deals on meat. They had an expired pork shoulder and pork for stew on clearance (like half off), as well as whole turkeys on sale and hot dogs for treats.

So I bought them and checked on different forums to see if those cuts were appropriate on the raw diet. Looks like they are! I have to let the turkey thaw before I cut it up, but I also have to put the pork feet in separate bags/containers and put the other stuff in the freezer.

Emmett ate his lamb patties again this morning (gave him 3 with no tripe), and of course Danni is still eating the chicken with no problems. This morning I found a little bit of up-chuck, although I am pretty much 100% sure it was Danni because it only consisted of tree bark from outside...which is what she eats her chicken on sometimes.
I'm going to give her a good grooming session today since she's looking a little mangy :)

lataaazz. B)

Thursday, July 15, 2010

Houston, we have take-off.

Well, minor success. I tried feeding Emmett the seared/seasoned chicken twice more today--once for "lunch" and once for his evening meal...still no go. :(

So I posted on the Yahoo group asking what I should do and got a very helpful response--I should try different types of meat. Ok, so I took the advice and headed to a local pet nutrition store "Long Leash on Life" with Emmett to see what their most popular items were.

The owners were extremely helpful and showed me what they had...most of it was BARF based (raw diet for dogs including meat & veggies), but I needed to get Emmett to eat. I know for a fact that Emmett likes lamb, so I bought patties made out of lamb & veggies (ground bone in it). I also bought beef tripe, which Emmett tried to eat out of the freezer.

When I got home, I gave him 2 patties and a bit of tripe...he ate ALL OF IT!!!! WOOooooWOO!!

And then I decided to push my luck and put the seared/seasoned chicken in his bowl and he picked it up almost as if he was going to eat it. He ended up just putting it on the ground, but that was more than he had ever been willing to do before.

I'm thawing 3 patties tonight and hopefully this good streak will continue! :D

Still no go

Emmett still hasn't eaten :( Last night he skipped, and this morning I even seared it for him and put garlic on it. Well, he was a little more interested in it at that point, but didn't eat anything still.

I'm re-washing his bowl to make sure there's no chicken "juice" left in it, then I'll try searing it a little more tonight and feeding it to him.

Danni's doing great, no issues at all with her! :)

Wednesday, July 14, 2010

Going pretty well

It's day 2 and we're doing ok. Danni seems to love this. I swear her teeth are already looking cleaner, but I took pictures this morning to compare later on. Her digestive system is handling this really well. There's been no vomiting or disgusting poo to speak of. Actually, they're quite solid.
Emmett has skipped 3 meals so far (yesterday breakfast, yesterday dinner, and this mor
ning breakfast). BUT today he watched Danni eat and at least sniffed his chicken. I
might have to try feeding him at a different time than Danni because she's a resource guarder and that might be having an affect on him.

Emmett's before pics: (l-r: chin acne, full body shot, and wrists)

Tuesday, July 13, 2010

Day one: Half successful

Well, Danni LOVED her first two meals. Emmett isn't interested so far. I may have freaked him out slightly because he was acting like I was trying to give him a bath.

Danni did well eating her meals, and I watched carefully because I didn't want her to choke...and it was kind of fascinating! Her teeth are already looking better, I think! I wish I would have gotten pictures before I gave her her first meals, but at least I'll have some of Emmett.

I'm going with the 15 minute method with Emmett from now on. If he doesn't eat it within that time frame, I'll pick it up and save it for next time. We'll see how it goes.

Today's the day!

Wooo!! I scooped out the last bit of kibble last night, and today we are going to start this thing! I thawed the chicken last night.

Things that I'm hoping will improve are:

Emmett:
Teeth, musculature/wrist growth, odor, chin acne, weight maintanence, shedding, and some signs of digestive progress (less mushy poop and less gas).

Danni:
Teeth, coat, head itchiness.

I'm going to try to take pictures today as before pics and hopefully throughout this process I'll be able to take improvement pictures.

Here goes nothing!!!

Thursday, July 8, 2010

slow going


agh. finishing this last bag of kibble is pretty much torture. I've literally been having dreams about switching...this is getting ridiculous. Looks like we've still got about a week's worth left.

But anyways. I'm still searching for good deals!! It's not exactly easy to find cheap pork and beef. Fortunately I've found some other people locally who are awesome and we are starting a coop. Unfortunately, the wholesale prices aren't as cheap as I was hoping...but it's better than normal prices!

Oh well. I love my dogs :)

Thursday, July 1, 2010

anwers?

So I got more chicken today! 4 whole chicken "friers" for $0.69 per pound. I also got a good pair of scissors for my aid...the faster I can finish working with raw meat, the better! I cut the friers in halves earlier today and froze the organs separately (ew.).

Also after some searching and re-searching, I kind of found answers to my questions from earlier today. In regards to what type of animal parts count as what:

------
Re: [rawfeeding] Hello!

My recommendations for beginning raw feeding;
[snip]

5. Stay with one new meat for at least a week, maybe two. You want the dog
to be showing you that he is well adjusted to the new meat before adding in
new stuff. Take it slow; add only one new meat every week or two.


6. You can switch to a new meat by just serving it at the next meal, and
all the meals after that for a week or so, or you can add a bite or two of
the new meat in with the 'old' meat, gradually adding more new and less
'old' over several days, until you are feeding all new and no 'old'.

Pups tend to acclimate much more quickly to variety in their diet.
Whatever works for your own dog.


7. Boneless meals tend to produce loose, even runny poops. A judicious
amount of bone in a newbie dog's meal will tend to firm things up. There
will be less poop overall; raw is much more digestible and less goes to
waste. Poops will be less frequent also, for the same reason.

Bone adds bulk, so sloppy poops can be firmed up by some (don't go
overboard!) bone at each meal at first. Too much bone and your dog can get
" fossil" poops that are dry, whitish and crumbly.


8. Chicken is often recommended as the first meat to be introduced for
several reasons: its cheap, easy to obtain, has easily consumed and digested
bones, is easy to cut into different meal sized portions, is bland, you can
trim visible
fat and skin if you need to tweak, you can even take out bone if you need
to, most dogs will eat it and its pretty bland.

Read the labels on the chicken before you buy; don't get any that say
its enhanced with flavoring/seasonings, tenderizing additives or
salt/sugar/broth injected. Some dogs get itchy or vomit or get true diarrhea
from enhancements. Whole chickens are the best to start with, ime. Cut into
portion sizes with kitchen shears, as needed.

[snip]


10. Some dogs will get the Bile Vomits or Bone Bits Bile Vomits (BV or BBBV)
when new to raw simply because their schedules or routines of eating have
been changed.

When a dog adjusts to raw, his gastric 'juices' become much more acid, to
better digest the raw meat and bone. If he's expecting a meal at a certain
time, the juices start flowing in anticipation of getting a meal. When the
meal doesn't happen, the dog often will hork up the yellowish, foamyish
bile, with or without bones.

Sometimes they hork up BBBV because raw digests faster than kibble, the
tummy is empty, so it must be time to eat. NP for the dog, he's gotten rid
of the irritation. He may react as if he feels bad, just because you are
upset that he did it on your new comforter, or on the white carpet.


11. A lot of dogs don't drink as much water or as frequently when switched
to all raw, all the time. Raw has a pretty high water content and most dogs
are forced by dry as dust kibble to over drink water to compensate in order
for their bodies to process it. If only fed raw, you don't need to coax your
dog to drink more water or even broth, just offer plenty of fresh water,
he'll drink when he needs it.


12. True diarrhea is not just loose, runny or sloppy poops. It is frequent,
liquid or watery explosions of poo that a dog cannot 'hold back'.

True diarrhea is caused by disease or parasites. The occasional loose
poops, or "Cannon Butt" even over a few days, that comes from feeding a few
too many boneless meals or introing too much of a new meat or feeding too
much organ
at one whack, is not diarrhea.


13. The general rule of thumb for feeding raw is: 80% meat (muscle, fat,
skin, connective tissue and such muscular organs as heart, tongue and
gizzard) 10% EDIBLE bone (not all bone that is served must be consumed) and

10% organs (3-5% of this is liver, the rest is as much variety as you
can find and afford) This is not an immutable 'daily requirement'.

"Balance Over Time", over weeks and months is one of the raw feeding
maxims. ; ) If you feed true whole prey, that is; entire animals at a time,
then the meat to bone to organ ratios are 'perfect' for that creature.
Whatever parts your dog can eat of is right for him. In the wild, wolves
will eat off a large animal carcass for days, and each wolf gets different
parts.

If times are hard, they will consume the entire critter, including
skin, fur, less 'choice' parts and will even crack the hard long bones to
get to the marrow, even hunt small prey, like rabbits, mice or birds. If
pickin's are plentiful, they will eat the easiest and choice parts, and then
move on.

Because of variances in size, age, personality, life experiences,
structure and dental ability, a particular dog will be able to consume, or
not: all or part or some or a little bone from any particular animal. The
exception to this is most beef bones, and the weight bearing bones of large
ruminants - too dense - these are tooth breakers and can cause early wear.

If you feed 'Frankenprey', that is; a variety of protein, body parts
and organs from different animals, to simulate the whole prey experience for
your dogs, you are challenged to find enough variety in all these aspects
for optimal health.


14. Organs - don't try to add a lot of organs or organ variety at first. An
easy way to satisfy the human need to "Do it all, right now!", is to toss
the gizzards and heart you get with your whole chickens in with a bonier
meal, a little piece at a meal.

Heart and gizzards are organs, but should be fed as meatymeat. The liver
can be cut up into teensy bits, and fed a tiny bit at a time with a meal.
This will allow you to feed organs, but shouldn't cause runny stools. If it
does, stop feeding it and freeze those parts for later on down the line.

My list of organs, so I don't forget to look for variety; liver, salivary
glands, spleen, trachea, esophagus, sweetbread (thymus & pancreas),
ears, kidneys, repro organs, brain.

"Offal" - viscera and trimmings of a butchered animal often considered
inedible by humans, but great dog food! Offal can fall into either
meatymeat or organ categories.

[snip]

16. You can feed pretty much any animal or animal part that your dog will
eat and that won't break the bank. : ) Common grocery store variety suffices
for some; chicken, turkey, pork, beef, lamb, fish, rabbit. Others can obtain
at a reasonable price and feed; goat, venison, emu, ostrich, bison, beefalo,
elk, mutton, mice, rats, guinea hen, quail, bear (bear? ;) ), the list goes
on and on.

[snip]

Whole chickens, turkeys, pork shoulder roasts and fresh hams are all big
hunks 'o meat and edible and digestible bone that you should be considering
introducing into your pup's feeding plan, as well as organs.
[snip]

Let us know how it goes, 'K?

TC
Giselle
with BeaBea & Da Punk in CMCo, NJ
"You did then what you knew how to do, and when you knew better, you did
better."
Maya Angelou

-------

and then...

From: http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/message/187497
--------
Advanced Beginners Questions

So, you've been feeding chicken for a couple of weeks or so, you're maybe
started to introduce new foods, and now you've got a whole new set of questions.
This is a summary of questions that frequently crop up from folks just like you.
[snip]

1)How do I introduce new foods?
Slowly. Small pieces that get larger over time whilst the original food takes a
smaller and smaller place in the meal (yes it's fine to mix up different sources
in the same meal). This should take no more than a week or so. By that time you
should be able to feed a whole meal of the new food. Except organs. These take
longer as they are a smaller part of the diet and the aim isn't to be able to
feed whole meals of them. And remember, it still isn't a race.

2)What shall I introduce?
What's available to you for a sensible price? In an ideal world it would be
whole prey from an animal that was either wild or grass fed. In a less than
perfect world almost any red meat is good. Common second foods include ox heart
or pork as they're generally cheap and available in the US. But seriously, if
you get a great stash off freecycle or craigslist of turkey or venison or beef –
feed it. If your stash is all poultry then make your third food red meat. And
then get introducing organs.

3) How do I feed eggs? What do they count as?
Inside of eggs count the same as meat and need introducing as a single egg or
less. Even if they don't cause loose stools they can cause stinky farts when a
dog's not used to them! The shell counts towards bone. Feed them whole, feed
just the inside, crack it and feed it. Either way, they're useful only because
they're variety, easy to get hold of, and are great for camping and travel (not
to mention entertaining, but then most raw food is).

4)What does tripe/heart/tongue count as?
Meat. If you buy tripe that is suitable for humans, or in tins, it's not raw and
it's not really worth your money.

5)So what does count as organ?
Liver. Kidney. Lungs. Brains. Eyeballs. Sexual organs such as testicles. Spleen.
Sweetbreads. The less common ones often have regional names (especially outside
the US). When you're ready to move beyond liver and kidney (the basics) it's
worth researching names. Google and wikipedia are useful there, even if you
start by googling the normal organ name.

[snip]
Steviesun
-----

So, there's a start.

troubles and solutions

As a beginner in this process, there is so much information out there about raw feeding that it is daunting. Most old-timers direct beginners to do research to find out how to feed raw...which is good, if you know what to search for.

Things that would be helpful to me would be:

a break down of what is organ, what is raw meaty bone, and what is muscle meat.
one question that I have is---when you're feeding the rmb, does the meat on that bone count as muscle meat?

a months schedule of what is on a dog's "menu".

hmmmm. maybe I can find these things somewhere...

Wednesday, June 30, 2010

And so it begins...


Well actually, it began about 3 years ago when my dad got me my Golden Retriever, Danni, for my hs graduation present.

Then in January of '09, I brought home Emmett--an 8-week old Great Dane. He was my own hs graduation present to me :)

Oh boy have I ever been taking care of my dogs. I started both of them in puppy
kindergarten and obedience, as well as agility and conformation. I have done a lot of work in socializing them and working with their quirks. Alas, Danni is finally coming out of her puppy stage, but Emmett still has a year or two to go before he's mentally mature. Can't wait!! :) Puppies are precious, but adult dogs are a bit more manageable.

So, my current venture with my dogs is getting them on a healthy diet. Poor Emmett has always had a rather sensitive digestive tract...I would like to blame the Eagle dog food company for changing their formula to having GRAIN as their first ingredient. Premium dog food my butt. That was the biggest waste of money in my lifetime.
After he was 11 months or so, I started changing kibble brands around. I went through so many things that had different protein sources...from "Taste of the Wild" to that one $80 bag of Orijen Red...oh my. Learned my lesson to check the price before checking out on that one.

Most recently the pups've been on Kirkland Signature dog food. You know, the Costco brand. That's what our Yellow Lab Major ate for 15 years, and it's the best quality dog kibble out there, in my opinion. But Emmett is still farting...it's worse than a room full of stinky boys playing video games and eating beans and goat chees
e. And poor Danni's head is always itchy.

So after quite a few years contemplating it, I've decided to start feeding them the Raw diet. It's kind of a big deal for them...from now on, they only eat raw meat. [...affordable raw meat ;]

I bought a freezer today, and got four 10 pound bags of chicken quarters for $0.39 per pound. I spent a while separating those into ziploc baggies so that they wouldn't stick together when they freeze.

I'm going to let them finish the bag of kibble before we start the diet. So there's probably a week or two before they're officially on raw.

This is going to be an interesting adventure.